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please help a fellow fuji fan

Discussion in 'Infrared (IR) Photography' started by pec, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    i had my xp1 converted to 720 with LifePixel.

    I am having a terrible time getting the wb to produce the normal type image ooc. (white folliage and brownish orangish skies).

    I first read that xp1 is a bit inconsistant to set wb to 2500K - tried and images ooc came out purple.

    I spoke with Life Pixel and they said you can't use the 2500K idea as IR doesn't measure in Kelvin. They also mentioned don't use adobe in processing IR. This confuses me as I see lots of people do so.

    I have repeated tried setting a custom wb in camera, shooting raw and now the pictures ooc are mostly monochromatic and swapping channels doesn't really do much.

    Please some one tell me I just doing something incorrectly and it will work?

    Any one else have problems with their xp1 going IR?

    THANKS
     
  2. Dan Hillier

    Dan Hillier Premium Member

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    To help with white balance in LR, I created a custom camera profile. Take a look at this - Please login or register to view links
     
  3. roalk

    roalk Premium Member

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    I shoot IR on a standard camera with a 720 filter in place, rather than using a converted camera, so I'm not totally sure that the procedure would be exactly the same but FWIW this is what I do.
    I set my WB manually to 2500K and yes, the images do come out as you described (white folliage and brownish orangish skies) but this is normal as you wont' be shooting for colour but will be looking to convert the image to B&W before processing. Once converted the images are easily edited to get the result you want.
    If you leave the WB set to auto there is not enough range in the WB slider in LR to get it to a point where it will convert successfully. However, all is not lost. As Dan Hiller points out above you can create a profile to apply to the image which will bring the WB back to a point where it can be adjusted successfully in LR but if you set the camera WB to 2500K in the first place you can avoid this step.
     
  4. Djc737

    Djc737 Premium Member

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    I had my XE1 converted to 630 nm by Kolarvision and find using it a breeze. First you need to make a custom color balance by shooting a sheet of white paper in sunlight. Then I bring my images directly into LR. Pop over to PS run the color correcting action from Kolorvision and presto, one beautiful IR image. Mine of course are coloered but other than the above you only need a lens that has no hot spots.
     
  5. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    I think you misunderstand. I expected my ooc image would be white folliage and brownish orangish skies, but they don't. here is an example sooc with custom white balance from shooting grass.
    backyard sample.jpg
     
  6. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    this is what it looks like sooc when i set to 2500K
    View from the trail.jpg
     
  7. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    Thanks, Dan, but dont you still need the image sooc to have the brownish orangish skies? Every image i have seen sooc has that look, mine dont.
     
  8. Dan Hillier

    Dan Hillier Premium Member

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    yes - if I was to set white balance off a patch of grass, at 720nm, I'd be expecting white foliage with browny-pink skies. Your blue image looks similar to what I get when shooting at around 830nm.

    It was definitely a 720nm conversion that you requested?
     
  9. Dan Hillier

    Dan Hillier Premium Member

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    An example image - Please login or register to view links
     
  10. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    Yep. Anyway to fix it in post? I will call Life Pixel and have them check. Interestingly, i was able to create some nice black and whites from the blue ooc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
  11. roalk

    roalk Premium Member

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    Sorry, I misunderstood your original query.

    Looking at these colours has me wondering if you have accidently adjusted the WB Shift when changing the WB setting. To check this go to the 2500K WB setting and press the right direction button. This will take you to WB Shift where you can change the tint of the WB. The default setting should have the cursor in the middle of the checkered box.
     
    Immanuel likes this.
  12. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    It is in the middle. Thanks, though
     
  13. roalk

    roalk Premium Member

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    No worries, at least that eliminates that option.
    Until you can be certain that the filter that was added was indeed a 720 you might like to try taking a series of captures using WB settings all the way from 2500K to 10000K and see what that turns up. It would be interesting to see if one gives you the orange colour you were expecting!
     
  14. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    I will try that when i get home later.
     
  15. GregWard

    GregWard Premium Member

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    For 720nm IR you are completely right - "white" balance should, as I understand it, be set to grass or similar. So that, ideally, should be what OP is doing and not a balance off a genuine white surface or a Kelvin value; ie it needs to be white in the near IR range. If OP then shoots in "colour" my experience is that you still get some tonal variation BUT that this varies quite substantially based on the exact conditions. Sometimes I'll see a purple tint, other times a beige one - sometimes both in different parts of the image. In fact that "two-tone" effect is something I've come to really like. So I often don't desaturate the image - preferring it kept with some degree of colour. But I don't always get this effect.

    So I'm not sure how much of this you can generalise? If you forget the IR aspect and pretend we were looking at ordinary images. On some occasions there would be much more dynamic range and other times we'd only get pretty flat/boring images. Now we can't see infrared but I think the same thing applies. Sometimes there's more dynamic range (so more interesting contrast). I'm not sure where OP is based? But am guessing somewhere in the US? Maybe the IR light just wasn't that interesting and there's a need to a. desaturate and b. boost the contrast?

    I'm not sure the first image OP posted isn't looking more or less ok just a bit flat? Whereas the 2500k one is definitely wrong. I'm not sure you can guarantee the brownish/orange sky in all conditions.
     
  16. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    I am going to try over exposing the custom wb when i get home. I think the custom bablance above may have been under exposed a stop or two.
     
  17. F William Baker

    F William Baker Premium Member

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    I had a XP1 converted to 720 and I use the same set-up that I used when I put a 720 filter on the lens. I have the Fn button on the top of the camera set to the 7 "film" types that I use that are: 1 - B&W Yellow, 2 - B&W Red, 3 - B&W Green, 4 - Provia, 5 - Velvia, 6 - Astia, 7 - My IR setting of Provia - 2500 K no Green - all the way to the left and DR 100 and all sharp, shadow, noise set to zero. When I use the # 7 setting the images are purple and when I use one of the other color button settings the images are either orange, red or brownish. When I use the B&W settings the jpeg is B&W and the RAF is red, orange or brown. I don't have a problem with the purple images converting to B&W images. I'm not trying to get IR "color" images just B&W with the changes that happen to vegetation where the leaves etc go all the way to white or a shade of gray. If the out of camera jpeg is crisp I just convert to B&W using Faststone with simple contrast or highlight and shadow changes if necessary. If I use a RAF image I choose between Photo Ninja, Silkypix, ON1 RAW or Photomatix if I want to HDR. I use all of these as stand alone converters. I don't like Lightroom either for the image quality results or their sorting/catalogueing system. I own a copy of 5.8 but it just takes up space on my hard drive. I prefer to buy a program and own it and not have to rent it. The real beauty is that since I had the XP1 converted last December is that I can shoot handheld at ISO 200, 400 or 800 at ƒ5.6 or ƒ8 and not have to drag around my Gitzo that used to hold my Linhof 4x5. Even during Winter with no leaves the sky and clouds have a special IR look. Now that leaves are starting to come out on the trees I'm probably gonna wear my XP1 out. I really like my purple images that I change to B&W. Both the autofocus and the manual focus work fine. Sometimes I adjust the Exposure Compensation dial but usually never more tha 2 clicks either way. Isaac Szabo did my conversion and I highly recommend his service.
    Regards,
    F William Baker
    Dallas, Texas
     
  18. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    H all, i have tried all suggestions and called life pixel. I sent them a raw file and they agree it is virtually monochromatic. They asked if i have ever seen a converted xp1 with 720 ever generate faux color? They said most use 720 for bw. Any examples?
     
  19. GregWard

    GregWard Premium Member

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    I would say that's right. 720nm is beyond the human colour range and into near IR. So it is inherently black and white. That said you can still get some tonal variation. But I would stress this isn't full-on colour. It's just a very subtle effect. I can try to post an image of what I mean later (if nobody else has an example) but am currently travelling. Most people, however, would still call the images I have in mind "black and white" and most people desaturate to genuinely make them B&W. I quite like leaving them in "colour" because I like the subtle tonal variations.
     
  20. pec

    pec Premium Member

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    thanks, Greg
     

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