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Fashion show shot with X-T2 not nearly as sharp as 5DIII. What to do?

Discussion in 'X-T2, X-T1, X-T20, X-T10' started by cathy, Feb 12, 2017.

  1. cathy

    cathy Member

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    See my comment above...
     
  2. GregWard

    GregWard Premium Member

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    The tests we were recommending need only have taken you ten minutes at most. Your original posts/issues were all around shooting in a very challenging environment. So just shooting in a much simpler/easier/more predictable one was all that was required.

    But look - it's your choice - if you prefer to send it off to Fuji then so be it. I'm just saying that personally I would have preferred to be able to tell Fuji there was, for sure, a fault.
     
  3. TheEmrys

    TheEmrys Premium Member

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    I think folks are more disappointed that quite a few people tried to help you use the camera well, and most every suggestion was ignored. You changed one option. Out of well over a dozen suggested.

    And it is frustrating when those who have managed to get extremely sharp, and well exposed images attempted to provide excellent support, it was largely ignored due to a suspicion that the equipment was somehow to blame.

    Give the amount of time I spent with my own X-T2 and 16-55/2.8 to help and isolate how your images were out of focus, I feel I have wasted quite a bit of time trying to help someone who ultimately couldn't be bothered.
     
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  4. cathy

    cathy Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion but I disagree. I replied to almost every post here and tried just about EVERY camera setting that was suggested. I changed metering, autofocus point size, anything I could do to my camera that was suggested I did...and I plan to do more (if there is anything more) AFTER I hear from Fuji.
    I did not do some of the diagnostic tests for reasons I have already mentioned.
     
  5. cathy

    cathy Member

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    Just to be clear...these two fashion shows are by no means the only environment I have shot in. Since getting the camera I have been shooting with it in India twice, for three weeks each time, at various festivals, events as well as street shooting and I also shot the Women's March here in January.
    I now have quite a bit of experience with the camera and lens and I am unhappy with it.

    I only posted here about one shooting situation but as I previously mentioned it's just the icing on the cake, far from my only issue with the equipment.
     
  6. ojporqpojrewpo

    ojporqpojrewpo Premium Member

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    Just send it in and see if Fuji fnds anything. Once you know that the equipment is ok you can still test other things.
     
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  7. jecottrell

    jecottrell Member

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    I missed this previously. The EXIF on this image says a lot.

    Why did you select f8?

     
  8. DanGleabols

    DanGleabols Well-Known Member

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    Hope you packed it a bit better than that!!! :p

    It's good to put your mind at ease and get Fuji to test it out, although I suspect they'll find nothing wrong.

    I don't have an x-T2 (just an x-T20), I don't do your kind of photography and I'm pretty sure my level photography is at a much lower calibre, but I hope you don't mind giving my thoughts:

    1) Lightroom; as previously mentioned lightroom can often struggle with demosaicing the unusual x-trans array of the fuji cameras. Adobe have improved this over the versions, but it's still not considered as good as other raw processing software. It usually ends up causing issues with sharpening fine details (usually people complain about grass/ foliage etc), it may be responsible here. Iridient and Capture One are 2 options that are known to handle the raw files better. If you are using a windows computer, Iridient have produced a cheap bit of software that converts the Fuji RAW file to a DNG - effectively Iridient does the demosaicing and then the DNG can be processed in Lightroom (I haven't got round to testing this myself yet)... it can be trialled for free.. could be worth a go.

    2)Auto focus; I think the x-T2 et al. has a good autofocus system for a mirrorless camera, but there are still strengths and weakness between a mirrorless and a dslr. Both your canon 5D iii and the x-T2 have phase detection focus points, but they are very different; the canon has cross type and dual cross type meaning it can use horizontal, vertical and diagonal lines to focus on, the x-T2's focus phase detection auto focus points aren't cross type, thus is only sensitive to vertical lines (in landscape) - the Canon 5D iii effectively has more to work with in getting autofocus quickly. Also, the canon (when using the viewfinder) is limited to only using phase detection - the x-T2 uses hybrid (contrast + phase detection), and in low light will resort only using contrast detection. In theory, the x-T2 is more accurate (especially using fast aperture lenses) on stationary/very slow moving objects, but the canon will be faster to focus and have an advantage on moving objects (assuming the lens/camera are correctly calibrated). The catwalk looks like it could be pretty dim.

    3)Are you using face detection? I believe face detection forces the camera to use contrast focus only.

    There were a few more points, but I think the general gist is this: your not happy with the x-T2 - consciously or subconsciously I think you were probably hoping that with a little change to your work flow and the right settings it would be like having the canon 5D iii in a smaller package. I think for how you want to use the camera and the type of photography you do, that is not the case.
     
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  9. DanGleabols

    DanGleabols Well-Known Member

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    The more I look at the images, it looks like potentially like noise reduction issues;

    1) Point 1 above - combination of different processing software may result in better sharpening/noise reduction application.

    2) There's a few comments regarding not liking grain... you're comparing an APS-C camera to a Full Frame. The x-T2 is pretty good with noise, but it doesn't work miracles, the Full Frame 5D iii is going to be cleaner at higher ISO settings. May be the difference is too much for you and you are then trying to apply a lot of noise reduction to reduce it which then results in a soft image?
     
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  10. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    I think we need to be careful here.
    We all problem solve in different ways so just because Cathy doesnt follow what is recommended doesnt mean that she hasnt tried some or alternative solutions.

    She is obviously able to get good results with the Canon she had previously so not unreasonably expects to achieve the same with the Fuji.

    Yes it may be frustrating to contribute potential solutions andnot know absolutely if they work or not but at the end of the day it is Cathy's problem and she needs to resolve it to her satisfaction in her own way.


    I will be interested to hear the outcome of Fuji testing of the camera and lens.
     
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  11. DanGleabols

    DanGleabols Well-Known Member

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    You are correct. I don't know if my tone came across harsher than I meant! I also didn't meant to come across as having a go at Cathy in anyway, nor am I accusing her of not trying. It was just some ideas for her to try.

    I also meant to point out that there is a possibility that, as you stated we all work differently, the x-T2 may not be for her.
     
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  12. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    No it was a general comment Dan. It was not directed at you or any others.
    At times I have felt frustrated as have others, I think, (from their 'tone' in responses), that we havent managed to get a solution for Cathy that she has then been able to feel comfortable with.
    I think we also need to acknowledge that if such a thing as a perfect camera existed then it wouldnt necessarily suit everyone or their needs.

    I hope that Fuji find a problem with Cathy's camera or lens as this shows that we have all tried but been defeated by the technology failure! :D :cool:
     
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  13. Narsuitus

    Narsuitus Premium Member

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    Would not a perfect camera, by definition, suit everyone and their needs?
     
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  14. jknights

    jknights Moderator Staff Member

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    You know that you can never please some people! :D:p
     
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  15. cathy

    cathy Member

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    I probably didn't. It was probably shot with shutter priority...or one of the shots I took at full auto...or...hard to say for sure because I tried everything! Not sure which shots are which.
     
  16. cathy

    cathy Member

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    Yes definitely I packed it better than that! :) I posted the photo on social media with the caption "Don't worry I am going to do a great job of packing this box before sending it to Fuji."
    In fact they have received it and probably started taking a look at it today.
    I highly doubt you're at any lower calibre...compared to what I know about the camera you seem to be a genius :)

    I'll answer the easy question first...No face detection.
    Very interesting observation about auto focus. I'm sure I will be learning much more on this subject, especially if there's nothing wrong with the camera and I need to learn more about why it's not giving me what I want as far as focus.

    Now for the hard part...Give up Lightroom...? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! PLEASE don't make me give up Lightroom. If I knew about this in advance I NEVER would have switched to Fuji. Seriously. It's been previously mentioned that the two don't work well together but your comment went into greater depth.
    I never liked Photoshop but it's been my goal for many years to be a Lightroom expert. I'm still not there, I'd consider myself an intermediate user but I have taken tons of classes and have a hard drive with filled with Lightroom video lessons which I have still not completed watching.
    I have a Lightroom catalog with hundreds of thousands of images...
    The last thing I want to do is leave Lightroom. I LOVE Lightroom!

    I realize you're just giving me the facts but that's a tough pill to swallow :(
     
  17. cathy

    cathy Member

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    See my reply above about Lightroom boo hoo :(
    I wish that over use of noise reduction was the answer to why my photos look bad but the photos posted here have NO post processing. I've never tried to reduce the noise...at least not yet. If it turns out that the difference is too much for me (which is probably true) then I will have to start working with noise reduction. boo hoo again :(
     
  18. cathy

    cathy Member

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    No tone problem :)
     
  19. cathy

    cathy Member

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    BELIEVE ME I am really hoping there's something wrong with the camera or lens so exactly as you say we will have a good explanation/excuse for why nothing has worked.
    I called Fuji yesterday and told them not to send the camera/lens back unless they find something wrong with it :) No just kidding but I did ask them to let me know before they ship it back IF nothing is wrong so we can make sure they've looked at every possibility.
     
  20. GregWard

    GregWard Premium Member

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    Although I use Fuji extensively I'm afraid I'm a bit of a hoarder and so haven't given up my other cameras. Therefore, I'm in the same Boat as you re Lightroom. I don't like the way they seem to be moving towards a subscription model, and I only use Photoshop very rarely (and then an old version is fine for me) so economically CC is bad news for me. So I might need to reconsider at some point - but, for now, I'd be reluctant to move away from LR as well.

    Fortunately I think the "issues" with LR and Fuji are overstated. Sure there can be issues, and they really bug some people, but there are also ways of processing the images that minimise any issues and, in any event, things have improved over the years. Finally there are options (such as using Iridient or Iridient X-Transformer) alongside LR.

    Obviously we will all find out when Fuji report back to you. But my personal expectation is there is either a hardware fault (in Lens or camera) or this is down to focussing technique linked with the AF differences we've previously discussed. Either way there are plenty of us getting decent results from Fuji in LR - so I don't think you need to give up on it just yet.
     
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